Jay Cross, in his seminal Informal Learning, has lots of great insights. Here are some into ways to promote learning. According to Jay, people learn best when they:
Know what’s in it for them and deem it relevant
Understand what’s expected of htem
Connect with other people
Are challenged to make choices
Feel safe about showing what they do and do not know
Receive information in small packets
Get frequent progress reports
Learn things close to the time they need them
Are encouraged by coaches nd mentors
Learn from a variety of modalities
Confront maybes instead of certainties
Teach others
Get positive reinforcement for small victories
Make and correct mistakes
Try, try, and try again
Reflect on their learning and apply its lessons
OK, Big Brain. Let’s hear fom you. Do you agree? Do they apply to ChinesePod?
Ken Carroll
Well Ken it wouldn’t be in my nature to agree with ALL this stuff would it? I have a bone to pick with:
1.Learn things close to the time they need them
2.Get positive reinforcement for small victories
Personally I would just literally die if my airline pilot were learning things as needed (I don’t think Cross was referring to practice here). I think this JIT learning is overblown and only applies to a limited number of cases and mostly NOT Chinesepod. I say learn it before you need it and then practice like crazy. This especially works for skills that have physical or social components (like say bargaining).
More to the point this list doesn’t mention review or any kind of review schedule. There are still plenty of skills that need to last for a long time that should be reinforced again and again. If you want to promote learning I say identify what needs to be learned, as far into the future as you can, and then create an optimum review schedule.
I think he gets number 2 right but I think we should give positive reinforcement for small victories AND VALIANT DEFEATS.
To me, that sounds like the general consensus of modern language pedagogy. The trick, I think, is how to apply effectively apply these factors with the various age groups that learn other languages.
age groups? Kato Lomb was 80 when she started Hebrew. There are children and adults. That’s it. If you are 80 or 80 does not make a difference. 8 is maybe a little different, they can start with adult material. However, adults can start with children material.
Those high efficient learners (Lomb, Kaufmann, Schliemann) usually start just with a book, or a few books in the target language, and a dictionary. And just start reading. Lomb then listened to the radio (no internet then).
I wonder if ChinesePod would be attractive to the high efficient learner. It seems the the efficiency is low. 60 Seconds of Mandarin dialog are wrapped into 15 Minutes English (great if you learn English too!). So in short, the English contend is too high to make it very useful. The MP3 is good as a tool, but there seem to be a lack of structure into the written script.
Michael,
He doesnt’ say anyone HAS to learn this way, because it obviously could not apply in all circumstances. (One hopes a learner wouldn’t be flying an airplane with passengerws on board under any circumstances.) The ‘need’ in the context of a trainee pilot? When he reaches a certain level of knowledge/understanding, but needs more information to go beyond it. Giving it to him long before he needs to think about it is probably a waste of time becasue he will only rememember so much. I don’t see the JIT thing as overstated at all! Au contraire, mon ami.
Daxiong,
I agree that most of these could be applied to TESOL. Cross uses them in the corporate learning context, combined with informal learning strategies.
Ken Carroll
Ken,
As long as Cross talks about getting instruction just before he needs to use it (as opposed to just before he practices it) we sit on opposite sides of the fence on this one. I’d hate to think that your pilot was just finding out what he needed to know about solving an emergency (say lightning hitting a engine) just before flying through his first rain cloud.
Granted I’ve picked an example that is a bit self-serving but I think you see my point. There are many, many, standard problems that can be foreseen and practiced for (because practice is what is responsible for incremental improvement). To wait for a learning situation to arise before seeking the learning is, I admit fashionable, but I’m on the side of anticipating these learning events and structuring practice and subsequent review.
Heh, don’t you have a day job?
Fox,
There are many efficient learners around here! There’s also, er, 500 lessons, so there’s no shortage of input. Only in the lower levels do we use translations and explanations - and even there you can listen to the dialogs without the English if you wish. You need to think in terms of the lessons as ‘learning objects’. At the newbie level 15 minutes of pure Chinese would be incomprehensible language overload. For people who have never visited China, the cultural background should helps the learning while puttign the new language into context.
Are you seriously suggesting we abandon multi-media because some old geezers from a different century prefer books?
Ken Carroll
Fox,
60 seconds of Mandarian wrapped into 15 minutes of English??? Don’t think so. You might want to revise those figures a bit. Care to specify which level you are talking about as well?
Moreover, could you please define what you mean by the “highly efficient learner?” I take that to mean someone who gets the maximum out of the material that is available.
Also, can you tell me what the optimum ratio is for the highly efficient learning who is getting the target language “wrapped” in his native language?
Podcasts as the centerpiece of language learning is just plain wrong. It’s like saying that its possible to learn a language using just audio tapes and a CD with the occassional glance at the textbook. My 2 cents.
Ken,
there is one part of your service that fuses almost all rules together. The teacher feedback in the lesson discussions.
Example: For me the information of the month was a small little Grammar rule on the use of 的, provided - once again - by Amber.
http://www.chinesepod.com/podcast/2007/04/04/中级92-dog-personalities-2/#comments
I think you cannot underrate Amber’s and John’s answers to language related questions (on old and new lessons alike). It makes CPod both a personal experience and leads to rapid knowledge distribution. If you need to cut costs one day, do by no means start there.
Fox,
the efficient learner should maybe jump-start with the zh.Advanced and zh.Media lessons. For us mortals a few English explanations here and there in the Intermediate lessons might still be a welcome anchor once in a while.
Sahr Johnny,
podcasts as the centerpiece of language learning is just plain optimum.
My 2 €-cents.
Great blog subject Ken!
Based on my experiences, here are my own Top 10 language learning tips that I put on my blog:
1. Keep motivated even when you are frustrated with your progress - which will sometimes happen - Rome wasn’t built in a day! Don’t expect to become fluent very quickly, learning a language well takes many years. But always remember that any level allows communication.
2. Keep interested in new words - they are the key to any progress
3. Enjoy using the language you already have - many people often say that they are “not yet good enough” - but forget what they have already achieved and what opportunities it brings.
4. Use the Internet as and when you can. There is a fantastic amount of useful material, not to mention interesting and useful blogs and chatrooms.
5. Read in the target language as much as you can. But don’t try to read at a level too high - or you will get frustrated. Try reading for enjoyment sometimes at the level you are at - or just a little higher. You will find this encouraging.
6. Make as many friends as you can that speak the target language - maybe you could join a language club where people learn together. I am a member of 3 French language clubs and 2 German language club. If you find it difficult to find a club, you could try to make some “virtual friends” online.
7. Don’t think of mistakes as failure - this is negative. Think of mistakes as “feedback” and then you learn to find ways to reduce them by keeping a postive attitude. When did you see a young child worry about making mistakes?
8. Take every opportunity to speak the language and engage with people. If you can’t find anyone to talk with, then talk about things with yourself (out of earshot or people will start to wonder…) I have some interesting conversations with myself whilst driving…!
9. Learn about the culture of the country or countries where the language is spoken when you have some spare time. For example: English culture is somewhat different to the USA but we have many similarities and we do speak the same language - or do we? In reality there are quite a few differences between American English and British English. However these variations in accent and dialect happen with other languages too.
10. Finally don’t be too hard on yourself if you don’t progress as fast as you would like to. Learning a language isn’t a smooth process - you can learn a lot quickly sometimes - then sometimes the progress is slow. Always think of language learning as a long-term project not a short-term project and you’ll enjoy it more.
Finally, here is my own favourite saying (I wrote it myself)
“Enjoy what you know and the rest will only grow”
Hello to all the “poddies”!
Alan (Lancashire, England)
JUST - It was interesting to read about the pilot learning on the fly analogy. Pun intended. Actually I think in essence this is what they do. A commercial pilot license requires 200 hours of flight time and about $25,000. Cpod is kinda cheap huh.
Physicians also learn this way, much of the purpose of residency is to expose a physician to a wide variety of cases, so they can learn things first hand. I know it’s scary, but yah - lots of physicians learn things on the fly, and then confirm with the attending.
With that said, I’d disagree with Ken on too much emphasis on learning things just as you need to. I used to think this was the best way too, but my experiences have been counter to it.
Situational and just as you need it type information is great to get one thru something and to make things interesting, but I can also say that I’ve looked up tons of words on the fly with my electronic dictionary just as I needed them, but that in itself wasn’t the key determinant for that word becoming part of my lexicon.
What I think is key is frequency. I can tell you that I put a lot of effort into learning how to open up a bank account, you know the way to say saving account, deposit, etc. But when it came time to do it, I resorted to whatever vocab that was ‘fluent’ in my head and made due. Plus I forgot most of the vocab I had learned because I just don’t say ‘checking account’ that many times every day.
So although I loved the Chinesepod lesson on a bank account, and I had it on my iPod that day, and I had practiced prior to the situation, and I had the key vocab scribbled on on piece of paper when I went into the bank, it really wasn’t so key to my overall language learning.
This is in contrast to say a subject like eating. I think there aren’t enough lessons on this so-frequent encounter in China. There is a huge set of ultra frequent words that I think initial learning should repackage over and over in various iterations.
Listening to a podcast on how to order is very just-in-time, and specific, and interesting, but for all the words, lexis and underlying grammar and ideas to truely get into my head, there needs to be variations and many many exposures.
Some learners like Kaufmann can relisten to the same script over and over 30 times or more. Other learners like myself, prefer someone to make lots of interesting iterations and have it spoon feed to us.
BTW, the image for this post is pretty and colorful, but the hanzi script is the pits. I bet it is not by a Chinese person, or at least not someone who has put in the hours to learn the principles, technique. Right?
Lantian,
Thank you for that example of JIT learning. I will refer to this often. It is an excellent example.
As I mentioned above, Cross omits explicit mention of review as a learning technique. When it comes to language learning REVIEW should be priority number one.
But first, when does JIT learning actually make sense? Let’s say you may need to learn one of ten possible things in a situation you face on the 12th of this month (or in 7 days hence). Moreover there is a good chance that all 10 of these things have little future value beyond the 12th. In this situation waiting until the last moment to identify which of the 10 things needs to be learned and then learning it “on the spot” makes sense to me. In fact, considering how lazy I am, a trait I genetically share with most of humanity (just a theory), I think this is an excellent strategy.
In terms of language learning however at the Newbie, Beginning and Intermediate levels there is little that won’t be needed in the long run. There is not a lot of “throw away” learning going on especially at the lexical level in these levels.
At these levels instead of concentrating on JIT learning we are far better served at concentrating on forming and then REINFORCING memory trails.
IMHO, Cross omitted this MOST important principle when it comes to language learning. Not surprising considering most of what he talks about is related to on-the-job (corporate) learning. I prefer to think of JIT learning (without reinforcement) as “Almost Immediately Forgotten” and while it sounds appealing it fails for precisely the reasons you described.
Lantian thanks again for giving us that great example.
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Ken,
You’ve been talking a lot about Jay Cross lately. I think I’m going to have to buy the book!
It’s interesting that Sahr Johnny knows what’s right and wrong. I just looked at China-8 and it’s a complete mess. everything about it is wrong. Instead of podcasts, he put his girlfriend at the center of the learning. I also found one of their videos that was supposed to teach Chinese but it was just some goofy, embarrassing scenes of his girlfriend posing in a park. It was laughable. China-8 is a failure from start to finish. I’ve tried it and ChinesePod and I can tell you which one of them is light years ahead - the one that Time magazine chose as podcast of the year!
OK, let’s keep this civil and to the point.
A bit more background on learning at the time you need it. That’s a general observation, not a hard and fast prescription. No-one, repeat, no-one would suggest that a pilot go out and fly an airplane without training in how to deal with emergencies. (However, training him in how to deal with emergencies before he knew his way around the cockpit, for example, would be bad - he wouldn’t need to KNOW it at that point.)
Having said this, no neophyte pilot can know all there is to know about flying an airplane. On-the-job learning is what makes the difference between a skilled, confident pilot and a nervous newbie. The difference between the 2 is called learning and learning of this sort happens through experience, on a need-to-learn basis.
Some learning can take place well in advance of ever having to use the learning. That’s fine and dandy. Nobody is arguing against that. But other types of learning happen best when the learner needs to learn. This is an observable fact, not a predilection. The question is, how do we take advantage of it.
Ken Carroll
Sahr Johhny,
In a language learning context, starting with the audio is, er, a perfectly logical thing to do. Nor is it just about audio. Each audio lesson has text, vocabulary, discussion, and expansion exercises, etc. They are integrated. They require hours of study in order to consolidate the audio.
I’m not sure what your point about glancing at a book refers to. Pimsleur built an entire program around audio only. We believe that is definitely not enough.
Ken Carroll
Ken,
As I said, the airplane example was self-serving. I like Lantian’s example much more. I really look forward to seeing how you implement JIT time for the Olympics (if you actually decide to do so). I look forward to being surprised and inspired!
Isn´t Lantian´s example of the physician is exactly what Ken and Jay Cross are talking about. Learning medicine by dealing with patients is far better than learning only from a medical textbook. You need both.
When the patient is in need of remedial action, the doctor has to come up with something. At that moment he is under pressure to learn and figure out a solution. That type of learning is different from the formal, textbook learning and the doctor will experience throughout his working life. When you read a textbook, you don´t have to make any decisions, you don´t need to diagnose stuff, or take risks. I think the idea of ´need´is important.
I entirely agree with Alan Palmer’s point 1 (keep motivated) and for me to keep going I prefer someone to go through lots of different stuff to keep the interest level high, much as Lantian. If I feel I’m not going anywhere I’ll try something less formal than a lesson or even a podcast, e.g. a movie, a cartoon, flicking the dictionary, internet, whatever. It’s not that the motivation is going away, it’s just the frustration of not progressing fast enough. Better do something new and exciting than nothing at all.
MD all I can say is you do a *lot* of textbook stuff (would be interactive nowadays) before getting to see a patient, let alone deal with one. You learn to read before you listen and again before you can talk. So I’d be weary of extending the language-learning analogy to skill-learning such as flying airplanes or treating patients.
About the medical analogy, as a trained (but not practising
Yv
Jay Cross’s book is entitled Informal Learning. Not Formal Learning; not The Only Learning You Will Ever Need. His list is ways to improve learning - informally. Not commandments, not absolutes, not a manifesto. I don’t think we should get so hung up on the literal words he uses, but instead look at his meaning - what he suggests makes complete sense to me. Some of the other posters here seem convinced that Jay is referring only to learning a new skill or piece of knowledge. I don’t agree. I suggest that Jay’s intent is only partially applicable to new learning. If I need to learn the combination to a safe or lockbox, I want to learn it 5 seconds before I have to open it. But I think Jay is also referring to learning support and reinforcement of a lesson I have previously learned. If I have received a lesson on, for example, nailing that big interview, and I’ve reviewed it and reviewed it and reviewed it, then if I have an opportunity to listen to that lesson again, while I am in the taxi on the way to that interview, 15 minutes before I meet Mr. Big Boss, guess what? It’s going to help me nail that interview. Why ? Because the lesson is a reinforcement to me - it reminds me of what exactly is most important, it increases my confidence, it acts sort of like a coach. (that is of course if the lesson is designed properly - like the Cpod ones are) I can think of a zillion other examples like this - in business, on the street, in a restaurant, giving first aid to somebody.
Just memorizing words and phrases is really boring. I cannot stand it. You should seek infomation about something you are interested in through learning foreign languages.
Reading news articles on science in Chinese is an incentive for me to keep studying. If you are a newbie, learning about “China” using your language might stimulate your curiosity toward Mandarin.
Sahr Johnny:
Teaching languages using nearly all audio material began in the Second World War, when the military need quick results that academic institutions weren’t supplying. Military and missionary organizations still use mostly audio and audio-visual methods to train people in languages. They use them because they work. Why do you think they don’t? Try putting in about 1500 hours of work exclusively on this type of material and see if you’re not on your way to fluency.
Long before pod casts existed, I became quite fluent in Spanish using exclusively audio materials with (very) occasional glances at a textbook. (The audio materials included Spanish broadcasts on short wave radio) Yes, I also read a few hundred novels in Spanish, and got a Mexican girl friend, but I was fluent before I got the girl friend and read the books.
A recent article I read in Scientific American suggests that it takes about 10,000 hours of concentrated practice to become an expert in most fields. That’s 10,000 hours to become a grandmaster chess player, or to play violin in a symphony orchestra for instance. That sounds to me like a good ball park figure for attaining a very high level of fluency in a language. That may seem like a lot, but if you enjoy the whole learning process as much as I do, its not so much. And you will have a useful level of fluency long before you reach that level.
>Are you seriously suggesting we abandon multi-media because some old geezers from a different century prefer books?
You don’t have to “abandon” anything. But adding it will certainly do good.
What ChinesePod lacks is mandarin ONLY lessons in for beginners. Of course then we need also the written script, so it makes even great commercial sense as only paying users can get it.
For me, it would be a commercial decision to add such material. There are enough learners which prefer it that way and usable material is not that easy to find. Specially outside China. That would be short stories that stick to the top 750 (or whatever) characters.
>60 seconds of Mandarin wrapped into 15 minutes of English??? Don’t think so.
That is for intermediate. Some may have more or less.
>Also, can you tell me what the optimum ratio is for the highly efficient learning
Yes, zero non-target language. Let your brain do the thinking and have a written script on hand.
>Podcasts as the centerpiece of language learning is just plain wrong.
I disagree. Target language only and with written text it’s the optimum.
>keep motivated
Absolutely. And remember that ChinesePod (or whatever) can do only little. The main part (the learning that is) has to be done by YOU.
PS: I used to listen a lot to CPod in the car. But now I just listen to Chinese FM radio. I understand only a fraction, but I find it more motivating to discover something in the “normal spoken” form of the language. Other then that I read a lot easy readers material (with zero English, but with my dictionary on standby)
Every time you give beginners what they want and need, there’s someone who has long ago lost all memory of being a struggling beginner who will come in and say poo poo that’s really bad for them, and demand that the materials be changed.
Beginners don’t say much, especially in an environment full of superior-level students, but we do have people here with years of experience teaching and Communicating WITH beginners.
Intermediate and advanced learners are the worst people to pass judement on materials prepared for novices. Rapid learners had good methods, sure, but they had even better aptitude. Their claims about the needs of a group that they can have no empathy with should be ignored.
When you ignore them, they yell louder and with increasing passion. When you adjust beginner level resources to suit their desires, the beginners turn and walk away without comment.
Please whoever you want to please; you know the outcomes.
I see a list like this, I recognise the things that have truth to me, and search for other things I can adapt and use.
People got a little hung up over that learning things just before you need them (got a little silly too). Yet that represents a huge truth to me… Don’t study what you are not going to use in hurry! Don’t learn to count to a million if to start off with all you are going to be talking about is your kids ages and your age etc. Don’t learn more than the few colors you find yourself using in conversation at first. Don’t learn huge lists of words that even Chinese people may not know (obscure animals, strange foodstuffs, the moons of Saturn etc.) Return to these things when you think you might start needing them soon.
An efficient learner is agile in ta1 de interpretation and handling of input and methodologies, ta1 is independant and may or may not be smart (smarter is better but motivated is best).
There are other things in the list that are useful, but you need to find your own meaning.
chris,
well, I tend to disagree. Learn what you find interesting to stay motivated. IMHO motivation is more important than efficiency.
“Moons of Saturn” is the absolute perfect example. I love stuff on astronomy. Of course I find lots of relevant vocab here at CPod, esp. the names of the Moons of Saturn:
http://www.chinesepod.com/wiki/Astronomy
With that luggage I can happily work through the excellent lesson on the 8 planets:
http://advanced.chinesepod.com/podcast/2006/10/06/媒体8-太阳系只剩8大行星/
…and on the way pick up lots and lots of good language that I can use in other contexts as well. (:
That is exactly why it is important for CPod to have lessons on a huge variety of subjects (other learners might be more interested in guns or baketball).
Henning.
Surely that is the point though, I stated motivated is best.
I am motivated to use the opportunities I am presented with to communicate as fast and efficiently as possible.
Now if you want to use the names of the moons of Saturn for your own interest then that is justification in itself.
The lesson that is about astronomy that introduces other language is good in its own right, but I don’t think you can justify the list as a tool to use the lesson.
Yes of course Cpod is good to have such diversity, but precisely because you can cherry pick some lessons if you know you are going to need some language soon.
I was just trying to point out what one of those items in the original post means to me. Also you are more likely to get into conversations about what you find interesting anyway.
What I personally hate is the learning a bunch of stuff just because it appears next (learning 20 colors when to begin with you may just need five and will forget the remain 15)
As an advanced learner, all of those enhanced learning tips are relevant. I wish Beginner students would just knuckle down and apply these concepts. No wonder they seem to be forever spinning their wheels in the lower echelons. Just my humble observation.
What works for me, and for many of the learners I work with, is not “Just in Time” learning, but rather “Just What I Want Learning”.
Formal learning contexts (courses, textbooks, classrooms) are structured around the general needs of a general group.
A college course in Mandarin is unsatisfactory to many, as it does not accomodate individual needs.
Informal learning contexts (community forums, social networks, self service learning content) allow for a greater degree of personalization. You can learn what you want, when you want it.
To me, ChinesePod offers a blend of both formal and informal learning. Part of my personalized approach to learning Mandarin in formal (I was assessed by my counselor. She recommended a program. I have a daily lesson with my counselor. We are following the program). A bigger part of my program is informal (I access learning content on the website on a self service basis. I participate in a social networks of other Mandarin learners via the community forum and this blog)
The strength of ChinesePod is that it offers great flexibility. It provides me with “Just What I Want Learning”
I think Aunty Sue’s observation is important. In a community of practice (or whatever you want to call it) it is essential to get newbies involved. Slamming them or their lack of knowledge is means they never mov e beyond the periphery. not sure why peopl sometimes feel the need to indulge in these types of criticisms, but we have to try to avoid them.
Ken Carroll
NEED TO KNOW - I currently am living in China and often people ask me to help them with their English or what is a good way to learn. To be very frank, in the year plus that I’ve been here, I’ve been perplexed about how to answer.
Often people would like to do language exchange with me, variations include we speak English for an hour, and then Chinese for an hour. Or I speak Chinese and they speak English. Or some mish-mash of that. I find it doesn’t generally work very well.
Very recently I met a person that wanted to study, and who daily has interactions with English speakers. Also recently a hotel group asked me to train their staff. (I dunno, maybe if they comp me a few nights).
This morning I was looking at the OnDemand English site to see if I could point them there as a resource. After looking at it I still felt some piece was missing.
Here’s what I think is missing, in addition to “need” I think there must be realistic expectations of how much “comprehensible opportunity” one will receive. People are often unrealistic about this.
(1)NEED (2)COMPREHENSIBLE OPPORTUNITY = (3)ATTAINING GOALS
Let’s look at some of the requests for learning English that I’ve encountered (same analogy to learners of Chinese)
1. College kids - goal, want to learn to speak English
I think in general they are not going to meet their goals. Even if I was the best teacher in the world, meeting with me a couple hours a week doesn’t give them enough comprehensible opportunity. Couple this with a general lack of interesting English input in their environments makes the going a tough road. Plus all the English vocab and grammar they DO need to learn for tests, there’s not much room for spoken English.
2. Business person with daily interactions
I think she stands a good chance if she has opportunities to ask questions, review and gain a little new vocab in weekly lessons. But she’s busy, even meeting once a week is tough.
3. Hotel staff
Their challenge is that their encounters are rather infrequent, but then when they have them it’s quite a high-demand situation. What I saw inappropriate for them in the OnDemand English podcast on introductions was that it was all in English. These learners do not really have a goal of becoming fluent or gaining some rather large foundation in English, all that chatter by the hosts in English would be uncomprehensible. They just need to have some kind of working knowledge. I’m actually looking at some of the Chinesepod podcasts for them to use.
So I guess to stay on thread topic, I would recommend this, as you start learning, you yourself know best what needs you have, the comprehensible opportunities you will have and your goals. People will often give you the WRONG advice because they don’t know you.
If you’re coming to China for a year, your plan is going to be different than if you’re looking to say a few words with a neighbor, or trying to complete a degree program.
The real challenge is sifting thru all the advice various people will give you without knowing your particular situation.
For example people will say, “You have to talk a lot”, well maybe you live in Timbuktu and you’ll only be talking with yourself. Or people say you have to go all Chinese, full immersion, well that’s not going to work if you’re trying to do business in Beijing and NEED to know what that contract says. Etc, etc.
So to sum up, zhong yu, 终于
(1)NEED (2)COMPREHENSIBLE OPPORTUNITY = (3)ATTAINING GOALS
AuntieSue & Ken,
although I agree that we should get the Newbies involved and that there is a fine line between healthy experience-exchange and frustration, I think first of all we need to look more carefully which group really demands to have everything changed.
I usually do *not* see the “change the lower level format drastically” comments coming from users who I admire for their fluent Chinese posts in the Advanced levels and who I know to have climbed up the latter ahead of us.
Much rather these people tend to be “language-experts” who refer to a handful of mystical language genuises that I personally cannot relate to at all. Yet we lack evidence that our revolutionary friends here really accomplished fluency in the language they give advice about. Maybe it is frustration because their current progress is not “efficient” enough?
For me *patience* is the magical word, there just is no magical “approach”, “technique”, or “theory”.
I am moreover firmly convinced that the model of *mixing users* is imperative - no segregation policy, please. For me it has been and still is a soothing experience to see students from non-Asian countries who made it up to the Media-level and to even watch them advance in front of our eyes. Even better: Just take look at how some of the former Newbies here made it up all the way to the Intermedate level, judging from the quality of their comments. What stronger motivator can there be for a new Newbie?
And it works in both ways: Some beginner questions can be an eye-opener for some of those who think that they are far ahead. Only if you are able to explain it you truely master the knowledge.
Aunty Sue and Lantian very well said:)
Just a thought when it comes to learning the reading and writing Chinese, rote writing and memorization seems to be unavoidable. Avoiding it may not enhance learning, grinding it out may, in the long run, really pay off.
敦禮,
Thanks for reading!
About reading and writing, I think my reading and writing is coming along nicely, it’s incremental, but it grows and I do very little rote writing or memorization, as it just never helped much before. I can’t even remember my own mobile number, so heck if I’m gonna be able to memorize 30 hanzi a day.
I’ve mentioned in quite a few posts several things I do to ‘read & write’, so I won’t go into it in detail here. None of it is magical, mostly short-texting others, review, writing, reading interesting things, reading things at my level, sticking to a theme or series to up the repetition and reuse of vocabulary.
So to sum up, zhong yu, 终于 (see previous post)… and being quite conscious and annoying in putting into practice stuff that doesn’t easily slip into my head. What troublesome hanzi is stuck at the tip of YOUR tongue today? Anybody?!
Lantian
Many Chinese will not learn good English because their learning is exclusive job purpose related. They read only English because they have to, never because they are interested in the book. Same applies to speaking, they learn for business contacts. Not to mingle with foreigners.
Makes perfect sense, right?
Same applies of course to Chinese learners. You simple have a better progress with real interest and also with a multi-way strategy. Here CPod can be one very good input. But as a only input you will stay at beginner level.
I suggest to get a Chinese book you are interested in and start reading (translating every single character in the beginning). (However, I suggest some lite reading material, otherwise Chinese can be very hard to figure out, which can be very de-motivational)