By now, regular readers of the ChinesePod blog will have realised that V3 has left no stone unturned. The 8 Week Program is no exception.
For the uninitiated, the 8 Week Program provides a personal study plan designed by one of our counsellors, followed by a daily 10 minute practice session scheduled at whatever time you choose. It’s a great motivator, and helps you build fluency with what you’ve learned. Check out Frank Fradella’s blog for a detailed account. The service went live at the beginning of 2007, and seems to have been well received, with even prominent e-learning experts signing up.
For V3, we have made some improvements to the service and to its presentation.
Payment Options
All ChinesePod subscriptions are available in 1, 6, or 12 month durations, and the 8-week format was an exception. To make it easier for students to compare subscriptions, we’ve standardized the service and it can now be subscribed to in 1,6, or 12 month durations.
Name
…which means we can’t call it the 8 Week Program anymore. We thought the new name should be simple and short (in keeping with ‘Basic’ and ‘Premium’) and should describe the essence of the service. We came up with Practice.
Location
In V2 the service was a bit hard to find, but in V3 it is placed prominently on your personal Study page.
Integration with Schedule
Your counsellor can now send you a study plan, and with one click you can add it to your schedule. Your lessons will be downloaded as you need them through you personal feed. Also, you counsellor can edit your study plan even after you’ve added it to your schedule, meaning the course can be adjusted as you make your way through it.
Excellent! I was planning to pipe up any day now to ask you if there were any plans to have shorter (yes I mean cheaper
) versions of the 8 Week Programme. I’ll be out of Ireland for two months this Summer, which means no face-to-face Chinese classes for me. The programme sounded like a solution but I didn’t want to commit for quite so long. So does this mean I can sign up for just one month of practice?
I second Brendan on this. Cheaper. CHEAPER!!
$400 for 8 weeks is too steep. The introductory $300 seems expensive but I can justify it.
Maybe consider reducing the amount for existing subscribers (based on their type of subscription).
I don’t know about signing up for shorter amounts of time but please rethink the price! I would love to try the program but at the current price it isn’t going to happen.
The daily practice is a key component of my tailored learning plan. It is a real motivator, and the feedback I receive from my counselor is essential to my progress.
When I signed up for the “8-week” program, I was aware that I had some time comittments that would keep me from receiving the telepractice call 5 days per week. I have been able to do about 4 calls per week, plus I took a one week vacation to the Dominican Republic (I couldn’t seem to get a signal in the pool bar!)
So my “8-week” program has become a 10 or 11 week program. When I paid my $300 for the program I wasn’t thinking so much about the “8-weeks”. Rather I was thinking that I was going to complete 40 practice sessions over a period of 10 weeks or so. It is this flexibility that sold me on the program. I am able to negotiate a learning program that fits my personal timetable.
At $300, each 10 minute practice session works out to $7.50. At $400, each session works out to $10. Plus I have access to the premium features on the website. This is fair value in my mind.
My only advice to ChinesePod regarding payment structures for the practice sessions would be to remember that flexibility is the key. Different customers will have different needs.
我有一個問題：
Maybe its just me.. but where’s the new version of the site? I’ve been reading all these fabulous posts about it and seeing all kinds of pictures.. but when i log on, its the same old version 2. Maybe I missed mention of the roll-out date, or maybe there’s a problem on my end.. but could someone clue me in on this?
謝謝你們
Hi 司徒亞當,
The new site hasn’t rolled out yet. We have just given people a bit of a preview as to what it would look like, you haven’t missed out on anything yet!
Eileen
oh thats good.
謝謝eileen
haha. The main danger in presenting new features pre-release is that people will get antsy to get going on them
I’ve never seen a web site present new features pre-release like this effort. I’m really impressed. I haven’t paid much attention to the blogs, but it’s great to have the option to do so. When I stopped by the shop in Feb, Dave Developer introduced himself and told me a little about the release, then asked for my thoughts for improvements. I was impressed by that as well.
rb
What are the obstacles for me for joining the 8-week program?
* the big sum of money to be directly committed
* timing problems:
not, it’s not the 10min-call per day, it is ca. the 1 hour preparation needed to render the call useful. That is difficult for planning ahead 8 weeks in advance. So I second Brendon: please offer shorter durations, e.g. for 1 week only.
I would start during a week of vacation, and perhaps this could serve as a teaser, to grow more confidence that I might actually be able to bring it to use.
In that context it would be a wonderful offer for me (but painful to deliver, I admit) if I could have a schedule like calls on Saturday & Sunday only, as I should better be able to do the preparation work on weekends rather than on long working days with even business trips. (Internet connection during business trips is pretty expensive here, between Germany and Switzerland, where I am currently around.)
* the overall pricing level: here I second Jeremy Uriz. Native Chinese are all around the world and quite a few of them do engage in translation or education services, and their hourly rates are even somewhat lower that yours. So I would prefer to buy such mentoring service face-to-face in my home-town, along your previous line of lesson plans. Same flexibility than with my acupuncture doctor, who would be my first source of recommending potential teachers.
A 4-weeks option might be an interesting compromise and easier to fit into a busy schedule, but I find the concept attractive and I’d really like to hear more feedback from those who signed up (and where they are on the learning curve).
I don’t agree that pricing compares unfavourably with a local, f-2-f teacher -low overhead/transport, high flexibility/intensity– though one doesn’t exclude the oither in my view.
I see the n-weeks package as good preparation to a China trip or otherwise get started (I’m still contemplating it, just gotta get the timing right). This seems a lot more intensive and focused to me, I like the idea of a short daily shot but I wonder how it works out in practice : is it 10 min. practice 60 min. preparation? Depending on the level, would 15 min not be better with maybe less sessions (like every other day)? Reason I’m asking is from experience with private lessons is it already takes a 5-10 minutes to warm up, same to close and pack… You really have to have the logistics under control there.
Yv
As Paul points out, the practice plan works out at $10 per hour. I don’t think that’s more than you’d pay for a proper, trained teacher anywhere. (Without time for the research, I think group classes at night schools or universities are no cheaper - anyone got any data?) In this case you’ve got Aggie, who has a master’s degree (in linguistics, I beleive) several years of experience, and an intimate knowledge of how ChinesePod works. Remember too that this incliudes premium access and all the elements of ‘on your terms’ delivery: on your schedule, no travellign to classes, etc.
There may be people who are willign to ‘teach’ for a lesser hourly rate, but I’d be cautious about this. In my experience, there are too many people teaching languages who should definitely not be teaching languages. Mandarin instructors who get the wrong end of the cultural stick can be wholly ineffective and even negative. (I’m talking about lessons that can be a TOTAL waste of TIME and MONEY!) Aggie, by contrast, is certified (as it were) as a bona fide ChinesePod instructor. I’ve been in the language business for all my working life and I can tell you this: the difference between a good teacher and a bad teacher is huge. (Just out of respect to Aggie, I feel compelled to make this clear.)
Later in the week we’ll record some of her classes.
Btw, please don’t get the inmpression that this program is some kind of money-spinner or something for ChinesePod. I can promise you that it isn’t.
Ken Carroll
Having enjoyed lessons with Aggie in a predecessor service, I can absolutely support Ken.
It is a huge difference whether you have get the untrained “It-just-sounds-wrong-cannot-tell-you-why” and “you-are-all-wrong- again-you-will-never-get-it” native speaker or Aggie who will give you detailed feedback along with practical study tips adjusted to your personal needs. Really carried me ahead, although Cornelia is right - it definately needs preparation time to get the most out of it, and lots of it.
The price *is* reasonable - one needs to consider that this is a 1-1-approach. Students are using up resources exlusively, no way to share the cost among several thouthands of paying customers. The service does not scale, it is classical teaching business.
But I can also follow Brandon and Yv. I guess the ideal approach would be to provide the service in separate chunks that can be scheduled individually, e.g. sell blocks of 10 ten-minutes-phone-sessions that can be used up within 6 month (or 10 written-homework-corrections, or 20 grammar tests, or, or.) Maybe an option for V4?
P.S.: I guess this is the reason we do not get to hear Aggie’s voice on the podcasts anymore? I really liked her in the podcasts.
Ken,
Actually Paul said that each 10 minute session works out as $10 ($400/40 10 minute calls). That’s actually $60 per hour
Ken, apart from phone calls, would it be possible to conduct the lessons through Skype? that way ChinesePod would save money on the phone expenses, and transfer the benefit to the customer, e.g. 30minute daily call using Skype (Pc-Pc Free) with quality being equal to or better than a phone call. Have you considered this option? This may possibly be more attractive to many of us as we get a better and fuller service, and you would not lose out at all, as the pc-pc skype call is free. Please consider this. 謝謝
Mashood,
You’re right - I didn’t do the math. I guess I was focused on differentiating Aggie’s work.
Next time do the math and read more carefully, Ken!
Ken
That’s ok, i’ll let you off
What do you think about the Skype idea?
Ken
I have recently been searching out private 1:1 tuition from Chinese teachers in England (actually near Guildford, which is about 40miles from London).
One language school offered £35 per hour - possibility of more than one student.
Another school offered £25 per hour with an experienced teacher.
Privately I have found a recent graduate (inexperienced in language teacher - but very bright and helpful) for £15ph
Also a 24year old girl (with some teaching experience but no formal training) for £15ph
My evening course at the local university is $438/quarter. So 10 weeks, but really 9 since last class is a test. Of course this is group instruction, not one-on-one.
I would be interested as well in the Skype idea.
Scott
It does make sense to compare the 8 Week Program to a course of a similar length as Scott did, rather than the cost/per hour, reason being you’d compare expected outcomes. Just an idea, Skype is a good one too, I guess ChinesePod wanted predictable bandwidth or is there another reason?
Yv
I recently completed a 22 week university evening chinese course. Each lesson was 2 hours long, there was one class a week, and on average there were about 6-8 students per lesson. It cost about £60 (student) or £85 for all others. Its an open access course.
Although its quite cheap (~£2/hr) i think i would have gained more from self study with chinesepod materials. Mainly because the book used in this course is woefully out of date (i’m talking 30 odd years old!) and as a consequence the chinese was out of date. Also the teaching methods were not very good…similar to most language teaching that i have experienced in the uk. It is very difficult to find good language teaching here, and if you do find it, it’s usually very expensive.
I don’t think i’ll ever find such an amazing resource for learning and acquiring Mandarin, as ChinesePod, anywhere else.
ChinesePod, Ken, and the whole team all deserve a huge amount of credit for this!
Mashhood
Hello!
Actually, we use skype-out (which means we call from a computer with headsets) and can call you on your landline/cellphone/computer.
With the calculation of cost per hour, I think one reason I would prefer this 10 minute phone call to a tutor is that you dont have to go anywhere, so you have to take travel time into account:) Haha, and maybe I’m a bit lazy:)
Colleen
Yes, so if you use Skype, you can call other computers for free (skype-skype) and transfer the benefit to the consumer. You don’t need to necessarily use skype to call a mobile or a landline, unless your consumer doesnt have access to an adequate computer, skype and bandwidth.
I think being able to make the call to a mobile is great, especially for those people who are very busy, or for other reasons don’t have access to a an adequate computer at that particular time. However, I think there are a lot of us who would appreciate it if you offered an increased length of call (maybe 20-30mins/day) with the provision that the call is a pc-pc free skype call.
Please consider offering this as an alternative!
Thank you
I agree with much of what Guillermo has to say on his March 13 post.
I have four requests/hopes:
Social networking: My most valuable finds there are links to other
useful websites. I also often realize I have spent valuable study time
reading posts.
1.What I DREAM of being able to do there is to find other CPers in my
area who would like to practice together. A very simple interface for
this specific goal would be ideal: plug in your city & email address.
2.”My Studies” In addition to being able to create a list of words, and
a list of lessons, it would be lovely if one could click on the end on
a sentence in the expansion section to create a list of sentences. Many
of the lessons sitting around in “my studies” are only there for one
tricky sentence in the expansion section.(Which I have a hard time
finding again)
3. More More & MORE traditional characters!! Beginning
conversationalists often just want to get a little comfy with the
sounds before tackling those daunting characters. I didn’t want to see
a character for a couple years of learning conversation. Now I can’t
get enough. I hope to be able to read pre-Mao texts, also works from
Taiwan, etc. It’s perfect to be be able to see both. Ideally, all my
pop-up words would be traditional, with the simplified version in a
small ().The rumor that you are considering eliminating the little
trad. copy you have is making me a tad nervous.
4. The podcast: Having an easy way to separate & download only the
meat - the 3X conversation. (If one wanted it 6 times, they could
import it twice)
Hi Mashhood,
Skype out is so cheap to call landlines/cell phones (a few cents a minute) that using cp-cp and giving you back the difference would be a few pennies per ten minute phone call:)
Colleen
err, good point!
Thanks Colleen
Hey,
I feel that I too could use some personal instruction, one on one, so to speak. My aprehension with the 8 week course is all associated with not knowing the exact details of how it works. For instance: are there 40 lessons no matter how long it takes to accomplish the telephone hookups, or does it need to take place in the 8 week period? I was interested to read about the prep time needed prior to making the call so that the call is most effective.
I think it would be helpful to see something in print that explains how best to utilize the service so that prospective students would be more familiar with the offer.
As to the fee for the service, if it is effective I think is sounds rather reasonable. The fee for a 5 week course, one night two hours per week, at OSU in Ohio is about $170. It looked pretty basic but I can’t speak as to what they have available for that price.