The brilliant, and ebullient, Guy Kawasaki recently conducted some market research. He video-taped his focus group interview with a number of young people in the US. The object was to learn more about how young people use technology in their daily lives and how this affects advertising. The video is about an hour long. I found it very insightful. (If you don’t have an hour, he summarises the findings in this blog post.)
The most striking conclusion is that traditional advertising is in deep trouble. These kids are constantly finding ways to avoid advertising, by using Firefox, TiVo, etc. They find ways to block pop-ups and white out banner ads and they really seem to resent the intrusion that advertising creates.
We have eschewed advertising here on ChinesePod for similar reasons and we’ll continue to do so. I personally hate those ads that take over your screen, for example, and I doubt very much that our listeners would tolerate advertising messages bombarded at them in the audio - some people listen to the mp3s many times over. The old style of intrusive advertising is in trouble, to my mind, becasue it creates more bad feeling than good.
For us, this is a question of value creation. If we can figure out how to create more and more value for you, our visitors, then you’ll come back, maybe even pay at some point, and tell your fiends about the service. No need for advertising. Lots of need for feedback and innovation.
Will this approach work? So far, it is working. Will it continue and allow us to grow and build the ChinesePod we would ultimately love to see (we’re ambitious)? I’m not sure. What do you think?
Ken Carroll
Ken,
I applaud you for your principles and your determination. I hope you can survive without the ads. Chinese pod has a very clean look and it is easy on the eyes. But I think there are couple other things to think about.
It seems like there are some dangers in getting all your money from listeners. My concern is that your emphasis will be to create more ways to entice users to pay for content, rather than improving the lessons. For example, rather than put some repetition into the lesson that would help reinforce the content, you might make it only available at the premium level. So, although it is more effective for students to have better content in the podcasts, it might not be cost effective for Chinesepod.
The other point is that there is good advertising and there is bad advertising. Just because some of it stinks doesn’t mean you should reject it all. I think the users would find advertisements for stuff they are interested in (travel to china, books on china, classes on chinese) a welcome addition. But if you think the only two options are no advertising, or putting ads into the podcast - then, please, don’t get sucked into advertising.
The bottom line is that I think the site is great the way it is. just curious what you think of these other points.
I think there are ways to generate revenue from a site like this that you haven’t touched on yet. I know we’ve talked about a project that could help in that regard, but I also think there’s a home on the site for a ChinesePod store that includes a nice variety of products (yes, t-shirts, but more).
Here’s another thought for you: What about two versions of the podcasts? Keep the one you’ve got now with the same great ingredients and offer it for free. But then have one that you haven’t edited down, one that’s slightly expanded to give cultural insights, or talks about the characters and how to recognize them. The extended podcast could either be made part of the premium service, or you could download individual lessons for $.99 from iTunes.
Another thing to think about is how viral your student base can be. You seem to have a very hardcore group of faithful followers who would like nothing more than to see this place succeed. Offer incentives to folks who bring in new people. Offer us a way to buy gift subscriptions for friends. (I’ve already done this, but we had to do a little song and dance to make it happen.)
One more way is to consider becoming an Amazon affiliate and linking to relevant books on Chinese language, culture, and history. You get a small percentage for every sale that originates from your site.
In short (or is it too late for that?), I think there are ways to do this. I also think there are ways NOT to do this. As much as I love your site, if I suddenly started hearing a Pepsi ad before every lesson, I’d be sorely put out.
I work in advertising by day, by the way. Let me tap my co-worker and bribe him with a lunch to see if we can apply anything we’re doing for our company here. I’ll get back to you.
Eric
About your second point about useful advertisements travel to China, books on China….. If I were in CPods shoes the problems I see with that are (1) its more or less an endoresement of those products so you constantly have to be aware of whether or not you want to use CPod credibility like that (2) its like selling/buying a used car from a friend. Someone who owns a business may like CPod and not understand why you won’t support their endeavor as well.
I am of the opinion improve and increase the free value content,as well as the present paying levels and if necessary and you can find a market charge more for more stuff as well.
Lastly the site is good the way it is but we want it better and I think CPod HQ follows that philosopy of making it better too.
Paranoia about potential competition is good. Maybe even Apple will have to wake up.
Mike in Jubei
Ken,
For everyone out there who is a computer literate and electron savvy “IT” there are many more (like me) who stumble through life in the slow lane and tend to cling somewhat to the past. For that reason I prefer to get my supplemental information from hard copy books and paper and not from the computer screen. I print out much material from the screen before I study it so I can make notes on it with pen and ink. I even cut out things with scissors to paste into my notes with glue just like they taught me in kindergarten. For that reason I have spent a significant sum on paper flash cards and workbooks from Amazon and other sources. Wouldn’t it be nice if I could have bought flashcards (similar to the Tuttle flash cards) that cover the words and charaters from the transcripts of the first 100 Newbie lessons from ChinesePod.com? You have already done most of the work. All that you would need to do is some editing and printing. Not only would it add value to the lessons but it would also be an additional sorce of revenue for ChinesePod. Likewise, how about a workbook with expanded lessons that contain the original transcripts plus things like Connie’s supplementals and some cultural notes? From my perspective the possibilities are endless. How about a ChinesePod calendar with a new character and stroke order every day? You could make them into a series so that after six years one would have learned to write over 2000 characters. For the computer oriented crowd you could offer neat-o software of the type Fu Da-wei contributed to the C-Pod forum in the form of a fantastic tool bar. Somebody stop me or else I could go on and on
In line with this whole experiental thingy you could take all the newbie lessons and compile them into a book and animate it so that hanzi is paired with visual cues of the sequence of the animated interactions- comic book style. This would add value to what is there and not just be a book of endless text and would engage the beginner creatively. Some people are more visual in their learning styles and putting a series of picture to the audio could be helpful.
China was in the news recently for the factory of artists churning out Van Gough and other master painter knock-offs so it shouldn’t be too hard to find someone who can animate in, say,the Doonesbury style.
Ed
re: compiling material, I think making the expanded flash files available for download or some other off-line use would be added-value, premium stuff, maybe combined with some other stuff.
Ugh, advertising, I don’t want to see it. I won’t even allow a TV in the house, there’s no advertising on screens in my home thank you, and it certainly has no place in my recreational study.
Now if someone says oh the site could be so much better but the lack of acceptance of advertising is holding it back, that’s a bit like blackmail, offensive mind play to blame the victim. I’m not falling for that.
Ads stink.
If you want us to do something that brings you more money, don’t ask us to go and buy other people’s expensive wares that will bring only a cent or two back to the site. That’s just silly. Ask us for money, offer something we really want in return, be up front in the message and direct in the goals and execution, and we’ll end up parting with much less money for much greater cpod benefit. Isn’t that just common sense?
Aunty,
In principle, the kind of responsiveness you’re talking about is a matter of common sense. In practice, however, it is rare, because living up to it requires serious execution: data management, teamwork, focus, etc.
We’ve made responsiveness our mantra on ChinesePod, and I am convinced that this is the way to go. The danger is, however, that we get lost in all that feedback, so it gets harder and harder to make decisions.
In my experience no-one ever got paid for an idea - only for the execution. Not surprisingly, execution is not easy.
In the meantime, rest assured that I’m listening to you, including on the forums!
Ken Carroll
Chinese Pod is a business, and as a business it has as it’s primary measure of success turning a profit. I agree with Eric’s comments - there’s good advertising and there is bad advertising. If the site were to ad an advertising component, and that revenue stream allowed the company to deliver more value to me, than I wouldn’t object at all. No one really likes to see a lot of advertising, but it brings home the bacon. Maybe in the future the premium members could have an ad-free experience, and the people who just download the free lessons, without paying for anything, can be exposed to some ads. No such thing as a free lunch.
Free lunch? Free lunch?!
Advertising is brainwashing. It’s about changing people’s thoughts feelings behaviours and attitudes at a time that their guard is down. Some people are even brainwashed into believing that advertising is inevitable and therefore acceptable. Third party brainwashing has no place in a learning environment. The advertisers would be getting a free lunch.
In some countries where excessive advertising is everywhere the entire population is so brainwashed into accepting advertising that they start to believe they like some of it. Once that sets in you’re not thinking solely for yourself but as a product of the advertising’s influence. If I ever reached that point I’d kill myself. My brain is not a commodity, and nobody’s free lunch.
Amen, Aunty Sue…
From the Simpsons, where learning is brought to you by [leading soft-drink manufaturer]:
Actor/Teacher on big screen to crowded classroom: If I have two [soft drink brand name]s and I drink one [soft drink brand name], how many [soft drink brand name]s to I have? Jenny C. in New Hampshire?
Jenny C: [soft drink brand name]?
Actor/Teacher: Half credit.
Thant having been said, I am exposed to so much advertising I shudder to think how much of it I take in subconsciously. I like to think that I’m not affected by most of it, and can recognise the subtle ploys they use, but I’m sure some gets through.
Advertising was, at one stage in the distant past, simply a method to let people know what products you had available at a store, but has since moved on to a much deeper psychological level. How many ads these days are actually about a product or have anything to do with what they’re trying to show you. It’s just a way to make sure you know the product name, and when you see it you think nice things, or even just to get you to think about the generic product. Mmmm Beer…etc even if you don’t buy that brand, you’re still thinking about beer, and might buy their product when you see it on the shelf. Next, there’ll be the don’t think about this other thing, listen only to us. There’s a whole level of psychology that seems to be devoted into advertising brain washing and it’s getting harder to tell how it works.
Oops, now I sound like a crazy. Oh well, it’s worth it. I am crazy.
I’m happy with no advertising, even if I end up actually paying specifically for the lack of advertising, it’s probably worth it.
Hmmmm, I look around me and many of the things that I have were purchased as a result of advertising because I was unaware of them beforehand. Will, you said that “in the past” advertising was used to make people aware of product availability. I think it still works today. If C-Pod were to take advantage of MINIMAL advertising in order to obtain revenue and at the same time by being selective they could point people towards products or services that may be of great benefit, then what is wrong with that? It could even lead to better products and services. I think whatever advertising that is done, however, should be unobtrusive and response to advertising should be purely elective and no unsolicited contact by advertisers allowed. For example, all advertising should be done on a page seperate from everything else. You could chose never to look at it or if you are always open to new things and ideas like I am you could take a peek once in awhile to see what’s going on. You never know. You might see something that you like and buy it and find out that it was a good thing and thank C-Pod for making you aware of it. Hǎo bù hǎo?
Ken,
I do appreciate the clean uniform look of the site unspoilt by adverts.
Marc in Belgium
CPod,
I am very impressed with the free content and premium services that cpod is able to provide. I find it to be of great value, however, I would also love to see discrete advertising for products and services that you would recommend. I value and trust your opinion. Your expertise in the field of studying and learning Chinese is far greater than mine. That is why I use your site. Just don’t use pop-up or other intrusive and annoying forms of advertising. Maybe a column or frame on the side listing different types of products or services and links to more information. I would like to know what you have found to be effective and keep me informed of new products or services.
I honestly don’t give much credence to the notion that I am being brain washed. I believe that most of us are mature and intelligent enough to decipher the information presented in an ad and then do a little research if necessary before making an informed purchasing decision. Just let us know what’s available.
Tracy in USA
Flash ads and animated ads in general, as well as page clogging ads and the like, are all inexcusable. On the other hand, who said that advertising has to be in bad taste. Many cpodders wouldn’t be at this site if it weren’t for advertising by other sites in the form of, “here’s something you may be interested in.” Receiving ad revenue from those of us who download the free podcasts makes perfect sense if it helps to keep up the fantastic quality of the lessons, each one of which is like finding free treasure. Also, I wouldn’t mind seeing tasteful (especially context sensitive) advertising of the sort that you see in Google’s simple, unobtrusive sidebar. I’ve never heard anyone complain about the ads on Google, and they have the revenue to prove it. Also, I think Frank’s earlier suggestion regarding Amazon is on target. To satisfy everyone you could provide premium subscribers with an option to see ad-free pages (though if you hate all advertising then you should use the superior and free Firefox browser with their free ad blocking extensions, as that works against any advertiser globally on every website). But most won’t mind the advertising if it’s peripheral, unobtrusive, and value-added. As much as I also dislike bad advertising, I would never block the ads on Google because (1) they don’t get in my face and (2) they often provide relevant links. Those are the two fundamental conditions for successful advertisements.