12 Responses to “In the blogosphere”

1. 1 Bazza 吴白锐 Jul 25th, 2006 at 11:48 am

   I’ve considered learning Korean, but I think I’ll learn Cantonese first.

2. 2 Fu Da-Wei Jul 25th, 2006 at 9:16 pm

   I’ve noticed a growing presence of Korean into the realm of online instruction. There’s one instructional podcast available already through iTunes (a bit choppy and difficult to hear — but sure to improve) and there’s one poised to make a grand entrance in a few months time. The latter has had critical things to say about CPOD’s approach (which is okay, as it was presented in a civil and constructive manner), so it will be interesting to see what they come up with as an alternative. I’m guessing their criticism will be a bit “softened” once they have some real world experience under their belt and deal with some of the self-same issue Kent et al. have wrestled with already. I truly wish them well and would be gratified to see them succeed. Different people respond to different approaches and there’s plenty of room on the language-podcast train.

3. 3 Administrator Jul 25th, 2006 at 9:31 pm

   FDW,

   Can you link to the Korean outfit? I’d like to see what they have to say.

   Ken Carroll

4. 4 Fu Da-Wei Jul 25th, 2006 at 11:53 pm

   Ken …

   Oooops … I’m going to have to eat some crow here.

   As I went back to the threads, it became apparent that the gentleman hoping to launch the Korean podcast in September (LetsLearnKorean.com was merely a participant in a few threads critical of CPOD. I, unfairly, lumped him together with Mark from Doubting to Shuo, who tagged you with a snarky review back in April, and recently amended and upgraded his opinion a bit. (You’ve met him.)

   The other site, the one with 4 episodes up on iTunes, is Learn Korean with Pyungsu Han.

   And by the way … I hope you’re not one of those types who lets criticism rattle you. Did we lose that great Intro Song Aric devised for the show because of ONE guy’s half-baked review? That’d be tragic. And are you, Ken, absenting yourself more and more because some half-wit (in those same threads) with no credible linguistic credentials chirps that foreigners shouldn’t teach a non-native language? That’s the linguistic counterpart to pop-psychology of the lowest order. A non-native speaker has a vast potential to contribute in a substantive manner. They’ve traveled the route and know the pitfalls that we’re likely to encounter. As much as I love Jenny, she’s not likely to pause to explain how Mandarin renders the progressive tense (for example) since that particular aspect — how we use it in English — is not native to her understanding. It simply wouldn’t occur to her (most likely).

   Furthermore, you’re a helluva motivator. I feel invigorated after your shows. I’d never have given CPOD a second glance if I hadn’t heard that a bloke from Dublin was involved. I figured “If he can tackle it, I just might have a shot … “

5. 5 Fu Da-Wei Jul 25th, 2006 at 11:54 pm

   POSTSCRIPT: I noticed that the link to the iTunes Korean Podcast got munged by gremlins in the server. Here it is again (unadorned):

   www.koreanpod.podomatic.com

6. 6 chris(mandarin_student) Jul 26th, 2006 at 2:54 am

   Freaks me out totally. Seeing as I started my second language at the ripe old age of 38 I can’t imagine learning a third ever. In my head there is room for English and non-English (I think some people call it Chinese).

   John you must be wired differently in the brain??? Maybe my head was installed with a 7 bit character set and I need to upgrade to Unicode??

   Anybody who has pulled more than two languages, do some of them start to degrade if you don’t use them? The only comparison I can make is computer languages and they do definitely degrade if you stop using one daily.

7. 7 Bazza 吴白锐 Jul 26th, 2006 at 4:30 am

   I believe Ken can speak about 6 languages, I seem to remember him saying in one of the earlier lessons.

   I’ve tried quite a few in the past but never really been successful in learning them. I’ve tried German, Italian, French, Dutch, Latin, British Sign Language and considered Japanese, and of course currently Chinese. I think I can safely say Chinese is now my best language after English, I think I’m more determined this time and ChinesePod has been a massive help.

8. 8 Ken Carroll Jul 26th, 2006 at 5:59 am

   FDW,

   I really appreciate the positive words.

   I am always keen to hear criticism, because I want to learn from it. To be brutally honest, we have a clear strategy in this regard: if the criticism from a competitor is valid, we just upend him by taking the idea and using it. We are always thankful for those types of criticism! Far better to spend time doing this than getting upset. And if someone were to give away insights several months before he even launched, then, hey, that would have been great!

   We listen to feedback and make decisions fairly rationally. One comment or one person’s criticism wouldn’t generally have the effect of major changes in the service. I do think it was the right idea for me to get out of the intermediate lessons, though, not least because they are time consuming to produce. John P has done well in there, I think.

9. 9 Will Jul 26th, 2006 at 6:21 am

   Having done a number of languages to various levels and then left them off in an ADHD style, I can say, yes, they definitely drop off the back of the brain when left unused. Like the bicycle analogy (Like riding a bike…) when you come back to it, it’s still there, but you’ve got to fall off a couple of times while you get your balance back. I haven’t done Japanese officially for a good 10 years (I got to an intermediate to upper intermediate level), I can still pick bits and pieces out listening and more from writing (thanks to Chinese…). My Spanish (advanced) visibly drains when I don’t use it. My mental muscles fade… On the plus side, I’m benefited by the luck of having an office next to the Spanish tutors. My Arabic (beginner only) is marginal at best due to lack of practice, and Russian never got off the ground - I remember grammar but no vocab whatsoever.

10. 10 John Jul 26th, 2006 at 6:27 am

    Chris,

    It does get difficult with multiple languages, and yes, you do need to practice them or you lose them. I think I retain languages better than the average person, because in general I have a terrible memory, and yet I am able to learn all these languages fairly painlessly. (That’s also because I truly enjoy the process, though.)

    Also, I haven’t used my Spanish much in about 6 years, and I still retain most of it on some level, even if I find speaking quite laborious now. So, yes, they do fade with disuse, but exactly how fast varies widely with each person. I also think that they fade much faster if you really don’t care if you lose the language ability. I lost a lot of Spanish in only two years back in college, but I later got it back, and I think the fact that I don’t want to ever lose it again has helped my brain to retain the Spanish. I think a lot of people’s attitude of, “well, I’m done studying that language, so I’m never going to use it or remember it in the future” contributes a lot to their total loss of ability.

    In my third year at University of Florida I was studying Chinese, Japanese, and Spanish simultaneously. I had all three classes in one day three times a week, in fact. Japanese class came directly after Chinese class. In the beginning, it was very hard to “switch gears,” and took a lot of concentration. But, like anything, it gets much easier with practice.

11. 11 AuntySue Jul 27th, 2006 at 2:09 am

    My only Chinese speaking locals, the cafe family who claim to speak Mandarin back home, throw funny pronunciation and strange words at me. Last week one of their kids tipped me off that they really speak Cantonese. So now I’m considering learning Cantonese to the level of ordering coffee and commenting on the weather. Would that endanger my Mandarin?

12. 12 Will Jul 27th, 2006 at 9:16 am

    Probably not, Sue. The human brain can keep a number of languages separat. Even if you do mix them up, which happens occasionally, it’s not a disaster. It’s just a fun learning experience.

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