Click here if you’d like to hear the interview with Tom Raftery at Podleaders.
Once I start talking about this stuff I just can’t stop. It’s just such an interesting topic!
Update:
Tom’s next interview will be with Dave Sifry, of Technorati. If you don’t know what Technorati is, I suggest you go and take a look. Basically, however, it is a blog search engine. If, for example, you type ‘chinesepod’ into Technorati, it will show you the latest blog references from around the world for that term.
I’m a huge admirer of Dave Sifry’s as I think Technorati is a magnificent tool and a great brand.
Ken
Hi Ken,
A very good interview, yes you love to talk, Tom had to really work to jump in there! At time the two of you talked about the ‘third pillar’, the community of Cpodsters, and I would agree its vital. I find it a great motivator, a kind of nice daily place that I want to hang out at for a while, and ultimately keeps me learning. Being rather selfish and self-absorbed at the moment most of my participation is with the new podcasts, occassionally the Wiki, then the blog and occassionally I’ll pull up an old cast for some commenting.
Recently, however, AuntySue, a very new user dropped in, and with the comments in your interview I wondered how they might be feeling. I think they also love the community we have each day with very recent podcasts, but are they being left all alone as they review the old casts? Although the earlier pod comment threads are much shorter as we had less people around back then, the threads are typically growiing and growing. I think sometimes newer users are a bit shy to ‘drop-in’ and ask their newbie questions, but many of us would love to help them as much as we can. What mechanisms might grow to help with this?
I wonder if there’s a way to ‘tweak’ the comments/blog engine a bit, right now you have Recent Comments, Most Comments…any other variations? I’m thinking, what happens to the community after there are 365 shows? Do the threads get archived? But there’s so much there also. The Wiki seems a great ‘timeless repository. But how do you envision things when you start to first ‘re-broadcast’ a show?
If I get some freed-up cycles I might try to setup a section in the Wiki on ‘My Cpod Curriculum’, a listing of some sort of how I went thru the podcasts. Have you put much effort into looking at polling, voting plug-ins that can be added? Maybe allow a user to identify their levels and vote for favorite casts. That way the newbie community could TELL you which shows they liked, a sort of democratically-built curriculum.
There’s no linking between the review exercises (or comment section there), or tracking back from the comments for grammar bank activities. How about a moderated forum, with a ‘teacher’s assistant’ in the paid-subscription area? An area with the Learning Center tab where very specific language Q&A could be asked and answered. If you could also provide say a ‘trackback’ feed/listing of say just the most recent Q&As into the general ‘public square’ comments area, it’s a nice teaser for non-subscribers.
Anyway, some thoughts. Again nice interview.
Lantian,
Good point about the newbies. I’m also impressed by your willingness to assist them. And once again, you’ve touched on a crucial issue going forward: it won’t be long before the re are hundresd of podcasts, and that could get messy in many ways (including the ones you’ve mentioned). In this light we’re working towards a comprehensive tagging system that would offer people a very celar and simple way to access the materials they prefer. This would allow people to construct their own syllabi, which would be very cool, I think.
That doesn’t answer the question of comments in the older podcasts. For that I’ll have to defer to Hank Horkoff, to see what he can come up with some kind of comment alert for those.
As for your other comments, they are all well worthy of consideration. I totally agree with the idea of a teaching assistant, for example. I will take this up at he next production meeting on Friday.
Keep thoes ideas coming - this is, after all, your space (’Your Space’?).
Huh? oh, who me? Thanks for asking and I do have some responses to these comments, but I’d like to hear the podcast first to get the same frame of reference. I’ll be back.
Which reminds me, I’ve wanted to say a few things, like comment on one podcast that was very useful, ask what Jenny is saying in the introductions, ask for the definitive answer about where to start, etc, and to raise some of the issues you’ve mentioned, but didn’t know where to put any of them, in a place where others will find them if they’re looking for that topic. Indeed, there could be answers or lengthy discussions already that I haven’t seen yet. But since you raise them here, I’ll come back and respond here a bit later on.
Sorry, I did come back, made comments, and erased because it was way too big. Maybe I’ll find a spot on the wiki instead. Maybe I shouldn’t post them all anyway.
Basically I said… RSS who cares it is not at all important; yes community is the difference between chinesepod and a good book; I haven’t found mine yet but feel welcome to gate crash the others here; I think it’s impossible to start anywhere except the podcast 1, 2, 3 etc sequence but the site says start anywhere they’re all equal; nobody will appreciate new comments in the earliest podcasts and the current newbies comments sometimes look like the place where a close group of Chinese-speaking old friends meet; the “new lesson every day” doesn’t happen for me with the real-time excitement that it was for newbies six months ago but I do have access to more difficult optional listening, so it’s quite a different deal now, more range of resources and less daily keep-it-moving. And finally a suggestion: how about encouraging people to log their learning on their personal wiki page here instead of an external blog? Cross-linking between them would be easy then, and they could also link to/from their general life blogs.
Another newbie would get a completely different feel from this place. If there are other newbies they might be less forward in airing their views, and might never see these ones, yet still have behaviour-influencing views of their own. Those who don’t speak out might never discover how friendly and helpful the more experienced members are.
Everyone has to realise that all of the stuff for rock bottom beginners is bound to be in a state of flux for us right now, as the second generation of newbies start to arrive and force some definitions scopes and directions to be decided on, but yeah, it’s going to be real hard to work out what’s best to do with all these ranges of learners. Good luck. Try something, you can always change it, we’ll still be here because you always listen.
[just one pod4 person’s ideas, not a representative sample]
If you are totally new at learning Mandarin I think you’d better start with lessons 1, 2, 3 etc, until you have acquired a minimal basic knowledge. I have been studying Mandarin for a while now but I have started with the first lessons too and I intend to keep this going, making an exception only for new lessons if they are for Newbies (try to get to the bottom of those) or Elementary (just understanding and reproducing the spoken words). I also try write the characters. I have about 300 characters now (also from my previous course) so most of the vocab is stuff that I already know. Actually I was amazed about the amount of new words that is introduced in the first few lessons. After lesson 8, I had already a collection of 80+ characters and that is a lot given that each lesson is only a few lines really.
All this to expand a little bit on what I see as a potential problem for those who join chinesepod now. Those who were here from the beginning have a pretty good grip on things. They have been exposed to most of the lessons, the news, etc. No newbies here, but rather intermediary to advanced students who are, I imagine, glad to have these challenging advanced lessons that are being produced now. But what about newcomers? Newbies could easily find all the material, after all it is sitting there just waiting to get downloaded, but given the quantity of podcasts it could be a bit daunting. But what about students with elementary or intermediate level? Should they do the newbie lessons too? Perhaps not, but then a lot of these easy lessons contain useful vocabulary and useful tips about everyday interaction with Chinese speakers. So what choice should they make. And, BTW, what is their level anyway?
So, although I like the no-nonsense, quite unstructured approach of ChinesePod, I feel that it takes a lot of discipline for new students to find the appropiate starting-point, to trace out the path that they would have to follow, to get motivated (as Sue points out ““new lesson every day” doesn’t happen for me with the real-time excitement that it was for newbies six months ago ” so there is a real danger of dropping out ) and to measure improvement.
So I think that it is time to cater for every group, newcomers in particular, and to try to find a way to increase support and to help all newcomers to find their way around. Paths and regrouping of lessons along certain themes are a possibility. Reïnforcing community support is definitely another. I thought it was encouraging to hear Ken expand on both these topics. The wiki could play an important role here too, although I think there will always be a constraint as to what material can be put up there. There is after all a businessmodel in place here and I would very much like it to succeed. On the other hand some things would be better handled by a ‘classic’ forum. This blog and the comments are good, but older lessons are somewhat invisible. Bazza had already tried to set up a forum somewhere but posting Chinese Characters there was impossible. I picked up this idea and together we set up a forum on one of my websites as a test to see if this could be useful for the community. The forum is on its own subdomain=> chinesepod.wushu.be . Bazza and I are moderators and administrators. There will be a link on the wiki. Please feel free to visit this forum and leave your comments. For the moment registration is encouraged but not compulsory (to post a message). This may change if we get a lot of spam…
BTW, if anyone of the tech people at ChinesePod reads this, pls do something about the spamproblem on the wiki. I had to repair 20+ pages today!
Regards
Marc and AuntySue
I think this is one of the critical problems for Ken and the HQ to go forward. How to please all that either started at the beginning versus those especially Newbies who just join. (1) Newbie lessons of today are like the first elementary lessons, elementary are like the first intermediate. They have to be otherwise no progress. But it is I am sure an intimidation to knew comers. (2) the comments from oldies who know each other and what has been discussed makes it difficult for a newcomer to join in. There may be technical ways to overcome this including your new forum. The other way is for us seasoned veterans ( of almost six whole months!) to welcome and show patience to new comers. I wouldn’t want to turn away another Bazza, Lantian , Wade, Sven, Annie, Aggie… who might just come along.
BTW AuntySue, you and all the other new Newbies who start at the beginning or middle and post, I think it is great I go back to older lessons all the time. Especially on days when an Advanced Lesson means just one or two listens at this point. So when you add comments I think I and many others are more than willing to share what we have learned and often it means I re-listen to the lesson as well. So hey you real Newbie’s you’re not going to get any better if you don’t join in. This is surely just the first step to opening your mouthes and speaking in Chinese wherever you are.
Mike in Jubei
Hey Aric
I think I discovered a little Aric sarcasm when I accidently tried to post the same comment (slightly edited) twice within 15 seconds. Aric, you think that makes me a “牛仔” ?
No way! I am a proud member of RedSox Nation and the Patriots.
Mike in Jubei
Mike, I think it deserves repeating that the “seasoned veterans of six months” have been fabulous. I couldn’t ask for more welcoming friendship and encouragement than what I’ve received from my big brothers here. Everyone is so genuinely personally keen for me to enjoy being here, and I’m sure any other newbie would find it is the same for them, once they find a way to speak up and reveal themselves.
I think we will have to organize things so that newbies are directed towards a set of 10 or so lessons that offer the fundamentals. After that, they can dip into other lesssons in that level as they wish. In the long term, however, we realize that this is not a proper solution. Next month (May) we’ll introduce a kid of ‘grid’ outlining the scope of the language we have covered or iontend to cover in the future. This will allow anyone, from any level, can map out a personalized syllabus, and (very importantly) keep a clear study history record. I beleive this will be a first and a very valuable thing, but it is als a challenging to do and one that will require serious collaboration between the academic guys and the techies.
As ever, your comments are helping to guide us in the se decisions. We want to make this your program.
Ken
Tha sounds like a great idea. Tell the techies to get some rest as well they will need it to make Rev. 2.0 through Rev 12.7. For instance which lesson was it that introduced us to jing chang?
Mike in Jubei
Thanks Ken, that guide will be so hen3 hao3!
Are newbies the future? No, they come first.
I saw in the stats at babelpod that about half of the members joined as absolute newbies. That could be a little misleading, because of course those people will be experienced learners now. OK, we might expect half of the future new subscribers to be absolute newbies IF the trend continues and IF the offerings are the same. But the offerings are not the same. Originally there was no catering for higher levels, until each one was added into the mix, so I would expect the proportion of novices joining to be dropping steadily over that time on that basis alone.
Theoretically I could “make do” with a bad and boring beginners book to some extent, or there might be a class somewhere. We see a lot of people at higher levels for whom, no matter how tolerant they are, find nothing available for them, or only a few inappropriate materials that they’ve been through already. For them there’s nothing else, only chinesepod will do it. They’ll find you, and stay, and help make you rich
On the other hand, the pool of learners with some experience returning to study has to keep being created somewhere in order to feed the higher levels. There may come a time when the important thing is not catering for the flood of absolute novices, but attracting enough of them for future intermediate groups (which shouldn’t be very hard).