This ambitious chap plans to document his study of Mandarin on his blog. He is a 38 year-old family man, named Chris, from the UK. It seems that Chris has an interest in things Asian, but that he is a beginner as far as mandarin is concerned.
We can connect with Chris, and follow his progress - he’s using ChinesePod, amongst other things, as the basis for his plan of study. For now, however, I want to ask our (super smart) ChinesePod users a question:
Which advice, suggestions, warnings would you offer to Chris? Is there anything you have learned from experience that you want to share with Chris, please post it here. Even if you too are just a beginner, we welcome your input. Hey, it’s all learning!
After that we can follow up and connect with Chris. He may even do a podcast interview with us!
My advice: repeat, repeat, repeat. Take the lines from the dialog and say them over and over again. Change them up (the building sentences in the Learning Center are very helpful here), and try to write the dialogs in pinyin after you\’ve listened to them a number of times. Take dictation from Jenny!
A good way to remember the characters is to attempt to write them out by hand. I’ve started copying the lesson dialogues recently, only done the first lesson at the moment though. It’s a good idea to lookup the correct stroke order as well, so you’re writing them correctly from the start.
Also I discovered these fonts recently: http://www.sinosplice.com/chinese/fonts/ if you install these then copy and paste the dialogues in notepad or something similar, you can attempt to read them back in the different style fonts.
Bazza,
I think in many ways you are an excellent student. You’ve progressed from absolute beginner to writing in Chinese in a matter of a few months. I’m sure you have more suggestions to share with us!
jonathon, gret idea to write the dialogs using pin yin.
Chris, Focus on only a few learning materials. If Chinesepod is your main learning tool stick to it. I think I made the mistake buying up anything and everything that had to do with learning Chinese. I had over streched myself, so focus on a few things and nail them before moving on. Good Luck!
Chinesepod,
I haven’t posted before, but am getting increasingly intrigued by you guys. I have listened to the Podcasts for the past 3 months, and they are great. I decided to learn Mandarin in the summer of 2005, after having started dabbling with China and it’s culture for a period of 2 years. I have never been to China (live in Texas), but have many chinese friends here. This is the 6th language I pick up, and it’s getting increasingly more difficult. not because it’s the 6th, but because I’m getting older. In August of last year, I got myself a personal tutor, once a week for an hour. I still think that is crucial for learning a language. Since once a week for an hour, won’t cut it, I complement my study with a couple of totally different language books, and then I listen to the podcasts whenever I drive or do something without using my brain (I hope the texas highway patrol guys aren’t reading this, but little chance they would). The combination of influence, allows me to get multiple angles of the information, and I assemble questions from the podcast and the language books, that I can bring to the tutor to improve the productivity of those sessions. Older people (and I really do think younger too), have a slow moving brain, and we need short influences that take different angles to the issue at hand to be able to learn. Based on this concept I currently spend a total of 7-8 hours a week on Chinese study , and according to my tutor am keeping well up with her beginning community college students. My tutor is trying to add a third component, which I also believe could help alot. Watching TV shows or movies (similar but not quite your videocasts). Many TV shows from China have the characters as subtitles to the show, so it can be watched by fairly inexperienced viewers and yet pick up most of the content. There’s a bunch of pier-2-pier software available where you can find current TV Shows and Movies, but I still haven’t gotten around to using it in a regular manner.
Delighted and amazed that somebody came across my blog. I have to say that Chinesepod is probably the main thing that turned a passing interest into a commitment to learn and thanks for the pointers guys.
I have tried the trial subscription here and am definitely going to sign up tommorow. The reason I am blogging my progress is partly to keep me focused and also because I program for a living and have moved away from the Internet in the last few years (more towards database work) and want to reconnect. I am hoping to develop some useful tools eventually that I can share.
I don’t appear to have any particular skills in learning languages and my brain is rapidally ageing, so if I eventually learn to speak Mandarin it will be a huge testement to the powers of online learning.
See you all around.
BTW I would be interested in any opinons on my blog regarding remixing of podcasts. I am finding this very useful in my studies.
Here is my first attempt at writing lesson 1:
That didn’t work here is the link: http://www.bazzanet.com/firstwrite.jpg
Just done lesson 2, which already looks neater.
http://www.bazzanet.com/secondwrite.jpg
交中国朋友互相学习。Make some Chinese friends with whom to study; 去唐成闲游。Hang out in Chinatown.
I am 37 (almost 38) and just started learning mandarin about 9 months ago.
As someone earlier mentioned, and I totally agree… write (or type) the pinyin out. This helps so much with remembering tones. See if you can do a progressive type of exercise learning. For example, first write the word “speak” (shuo1) then write “you speak” (ni3 shuo1) then write “you can speak” (ni3 hui4 shuo1) then write “you speak fast” (ni3 shuo1 tai4 kuai4 le5) … so on and so on, so that you are typing (or writing) over and over. It sounds tedious, but it really helps engrain the tones of the words in you mind.
I am no expert but, that is what has helped me.
2nd try to add a comment. 0’s and O’s are a real problem with these codes.
To Bazza,
Isn’t it great to be a child again. My character writing is similar to yours and just like the little kids in my apartment. But it much easier to read than my Taiwanese co-workers writing.
To Chris-
Welcome, like others I find writing the characters helps me retain them. (2) go to the learning center premium dialogue and repeat the sentences out loud. After a few times say them without having heard them a second or two before. (3) I practice writing my characters in air no matter where I am even when my wife shakes her head (4) think chinese whenever possible. ” wo yao cheseburger” I want a cheseburger as you approach the McD counter. I find this really help re-enforce what I know and where gaps are. (5) use the chinesepod community you are not alone and we are not graded on a curve.
Mike in Jubei
I think jack has touched on one of my favorite topics - lexis! It is always better to learn phrases than individual words - always. It’s easier to remember that way and it helps with the tones becuase you can ’sing’ the phrase. The key is to ensure that you are choosing real, high-frequency, idiomatic phrases as they are really used. After a while you build up this beautifual little repertoire of useful language chunks that kick-start your sentences when speaking.
Mike, these too are excellent ideas (especially the bit about the er, premium services). In terms of pacticing, it is essential to start using it even if you are mixing it with English.
And yes, use the ‘big brain’ that community here has to offer.
Chris, I bleieve that remixing the podcasts is a great thing and an inevitable thing. We keep thjis in mind when producing lessons - each one is discreet and complete in a sense. This is the way digital media are being consumed these days. It offers the kind of flexibility to do what woprks for you as an individual. Whatever helps you to learn is good. All I ask is that you share your insights with our friends in the CPod community, so that we all may benefit from them.
Ken, what I am doing at the moment is going through some of the podcasts that I am familar with and building summary files. I take the dialogue from three podcasts and speed it up (about 30% but keeping the pitch constant, otherwise you would be Ken and Jenny the chipmunks :)) I take out the English and repeat each dialogue three times. On the third time I insert a gap after each sentance that is long enough for me to repeat out loud.
Even though I haven’t advanced very far yet this means that I can loop this stuff in the car and listen to lots of Chinese wth no English that I can understand. I use software called audacity that even a layman can pick up quicky. I remember somewhere in the Chinesepod comments someone mentioning that they used audacity and another poster seemed to suggest that he removed English from the podcasts when he was familiar with them. It would be interesting to know if any other CPodders are doing similar.
You are spot on with this use of media being the flavour of the times I think it will get to the point where people will remix audio (and video) by cutting and pasting as casually as they might with text resources. The real significance of Chinesepod in the education arena is that the audio resource available is already large enough for exciting possibilities. The other hugely significant factor is that you are using the Creative Commons Attribution licence which means that in theory I can trade my remixes with other learners. I am working on some other strategies with audio and will soon be posting a detailed article when I get some webspace to go alongside my blog. Significantly Chinesepod is the only material that I could in theory pass on to other, I think technically anything else would be illegal.
Keep up the good work guys.
Chris,
This is impressive. Using your time in the car is such a great way to make a boring commute more interesting and productive. It won’t take long before you will understand a reasonable level of spoken Chinese. Fantastic, just fantastic.
I won’t promise it right now, but it may be possible for us here at CPod to do some re-mixes, too. It certainly seems to be an emerging issue. (I just have to be realistic about what I can commit to, as there are so many, many possibilities!)
I want to write a more detailed blog entry about this if I can find time today.
Keep up the great work.
Heya,
Just thought i would chime in to see if i could offer something useful. Like most here, i am just a beginner..but progressing fast thanks to the great work of everyone at chinesepod:) But anyways, a way i found very useful for learning is to use the hanzi and pinyin as translations for each other. I always carry a notebook which i copy the pdf’s into by hand while listening to the podcasts. I will then rewrite it with just the hanzi and pinyin and leave it and come back to it either later that day or the next day and try to speak it and translate it from reading the hanzi. Of course i will forget some of the characters so in that case i wil refer to the pinyin “translation” to find the sound and meaning. Ive found it very useful as most of the english is left out and connecting the hanzi and pinyin together have become alot easier. A friend of mine gave me a chinese book he found..i think its somekind of historical book, 700 pages! madness..but even recognising basic hanzi has become easier since using the pdf and notebook. Hope this helps, and good luck:)
Re learning tips
Here’s how I save time studying after listening to the podcast.
Unlike Karl, I find separating the characters from everything else works best for me, because of what I make them do for me.
The enthusiasm Chris has for pinyin, I have for characters. Chris might be able to convert some of these ideas to his preferred medium, or who knows, I might convert him to loving characters
I start and finish with the character, and use the character as the “peg” to hang the other learning on. Sure, learning characters is important to me anyway, but this actually saves me from “learning” stuff that can go into the brain automatically. It took a while to work out this method and why it works - for me anyway.
In your mind draw a big circle, and around that circle write down what you need to know for each word:
the meaning, English word, sound of Chinese, pinyin, character. Now in your mind draw a line from each item to each other item.
Quite a lot of items and recall-relationships, isn’t it? That’s good, because each of those lines brings yet another opportunity to cheat.
For example, you might have already noticed that if you set about learning the pinyin, you automatically recognise the pronunciation (don’t you hear Jenny’s voice loud in your head as your pen touches the page?) If you seriously study the sound first, then you have more effort to go and learn the pinyin, not benefiting as much from Jenny’s echo in your head.
So why study both if you don’t have to? You work on the harder one, and your brain will snatch a lot of the easier one by itself. Get them in the right order, and save time.
Other combinations reveal free learning opportunities too. When you look at your written characters while listening to the podcast, your brain automatically searches for and recalls the the pinyin and the tones. (If it doesn’t, take a deep breath and give your head a light whack with the pencil.) It wants the most familiar looking material, and when deprived it will pull it in by itself without effort. You can’t even stop it if you try. Characters are nice and neutral as pegs, giving little information by themselves, until some stuff has been hung on them.
For example whenever I see that TV antenna with an upside down seven underneath and a boogey hanging off it, I remember that my tongue has to be deliberately behind my lower teeth for qu, because, I’ve attached that (and all) learning to the character. Each character holds my personal history of challenges (like q sound) and my overcoming of them. When I hear that word I see the character flowing onto the page and my fingers feel its writing. When I can’t remember what a character is, I only write the first few strokes then hear it and remember its meaning and challenges, and all the phrases that go with it, hearing Jenny’s voice and now my own voice too. Now there are TWO chances of quickly recalling the correct Chinese word, not just one. That makes it all quicker and easier to learn.
I’m also aware that each character can have several different sounds/meanings, and mentally prepared to share their duties later without rivalry.
So, after listening without and with the pinyin, I get down to work. First I write out the characters in a special strictly characters only exercise book, one with 1cm (half inch) squares instead of lines, to keep me neat. Then I write the words, phrases, and practise any characters that are hard to write. While writing, my mouth says the word and my brain usually can’t help thinking the meaning though I don’t ask it to. Then I make up any more sentences I can think of, seeing how much paper I can cover quickly using what I already know. Then I read it aloud from my writing a few times, then play the podcast again to check my pronunciation. That book is in front of me all the time, because that’s what I hang my brain on. The transcript is for checking correctness. After a couple more lessons, I can go back and try to read aloud from my book again for revision.
Of course I also take dictation in pinyin from the podcast with the book shut (hard, but a good tones check), write out pinyin from my characters-only notebook, and say as many silly redundant sentences as I can make up in my head, checking my tones. The pinyin is only a means to an end, and its learning comes as free (effortless) learning. It’s still good to check it though. Then all that’s left is the meanings… but of course my brain has done that long ago, by itself for free. So far I never have to waste time on boring word lists.
And here’s the nicest bit.
Once I really know a character, meaning that looking at it I instantly know everything associated with that character, I write it faintly in pencil on the cover of my notebook (covered with plain white paper). When it’s been a really easy word for a while, I go over it more firmly. Then in pen. Then in black pen. Then a thick coloured pen. Then with a highlighter. If it’s a dud it stays faint and needs more revision. The cover looks like something between a graffiti wall and a web site tag pool. It grows with me and illustrates my progress vividly.
In my head I don’t feel much progress, but I can see the book’s colours grow brighter each day, and I know that inside that book there are lots of pages, all in Chinese characters, all written by me, that I can read, speak, write, understand, and give the pinyin for. It’s not a typical student language learning exercise book, it’s actually a real, Chinese, book!
1. Sorry, I didn’t realise how long I whaffled on just then.
2. I’ve got something to add
I’ve just read Ken’s old posting about problems people who feel over 40 have with memorising new stuff. It seems to me that at our age it’s a bit of work to add to what we already know, and very hard indeed to add something totally new.
Of course the way around it is to attach the new stuff to something we can already recall easily, rather than opening a new topic for it. Other things that work, probably for similar reasons, are a humorous context, being related to something we feel passionate about, and related to a personal experience of doing something.
When I write the characters, maybe the actual process of writing them (and looking up the ones I can’t see properly, making it fit in the damn squares, etc) becomes a little experience that I was actively participating in. That’s why it works well as a peg to hang the other stuff on.
Just an idea…
Wow AuntySue,
I am going to spend a little time thinking about your methodology, I am not sure that it would all work for me but some of the ideas certainly resonate.
The blog of my progress is a bit erratic I am afraid, I will be commenting on my experiance with characters and study texts soon, although pinyin does have a higher priority in my scheme (pinyin study almost keeps up with listening experiance but characters are lagging at about 33%).
I tend to post once every few days and always have a line up of two or three posts in my head, sadly time is a constraint so my blog posts are blurted out then usually polished incrementally over the next fews days, I can see my thoughts on pinyin need a little polishing, I’ll mention couple of your thoughts. I’ll be catching up with the characters soon also.
Cheers,
Chris
Pssst… Chris… [looks over shoulder and whispers] I don’t really learn all the characters. If a hard to draw character occurs only once, I deliberately write it small and faint on the graffiti sheet to say I’m not going to bother with it for now. Sometimes you need to cut your losses, so don’t let my ideas slow you down. there’s reasons why you’re way ahead of me.
I look forward to reading more about your more pinyin-centred approach whenever you’ve found the time. We travel on different but parallel paths.