We have had many questions about the USD20/month, or ~RMB160, (for yearly payment) cost of our premium subscription. We feel that it is important to make ChinesePod a business so that we can continue to produce hundreds of more podcasts and continually improve the tools in the Learning Center. With no disrespect intended to the blogger/podcast hobbyist, too many lose interest after time and leave their audience hanging. We feel giving away the daily podcasts and charging a reasonable monthly fee for premium subscribers can help us ensure ChinesePod becomes one of the best ways to learn Chinese many years into the future.
To put this fee in some perspective here are some current tuition costs at local Chinese training centers here in Shanghai:
iMandarin
- Group Class (4-7 students) is 3000RMB for 40 hours of instruction
- Group Class (4-7 students) is 4000RMB for 50 hours of instruction
- Individual Class (beginner level) is 3600 RMB (20 hours), 6800RMB (40 hours), 9000 (60 hours), 10400 (80 hours)
Shujin China
- Group Class (2-4 students) for beginners is 1800RMB (24 hours), elementary level 3600RMB (48 hours), intermediate level 16000RMB (216 hours) and advanced level 10800RMB (144 hours)
Mandarin Forest
- 2 students: 65RMB / hour
- 3-4 students: 60RMB / hour
- 1 on 1 class: 90-110RMB / hour
Mandarin Today
- 1 on 1: 120 RMB / hour
- 1 on 2: 90 RMB / hour
Mandarin House
- they have a more complicated pricing scheme based on the number of student in a class and the number of hours intended to study, but…
- 1 on 1 for less than 30 hours: RMB 170
- 1 on 4 for less than 30 hours: RMB 70
I’m of many minds on this topic, so let me spill forth and others can help out.
Living in America mind-set: I make a good salary, I want to learn Chinese, $20 bucks a month is not a lot, it’s the price of a good dinner, it’s the bill that spits out of the ATM. BUT I already have a cell phone subscription, I already enhanced that with internet access, I have my cable bill, I’m thinking about satellite radio, I have my landline phone bill, even though I have my VoIP phone going too, I have my broadband monthly fee, I have my yearly COSTCO membership, I have my healthclub membership, I’m pulling songs off of iTunes, I have my gas-water-and electricity, God forbid the electricity goes out and all the toys power off, AND my gasoline costs what, almost half ofwhat they pay in Europe, that’s outrageous!! Forget the Chinesepod, I’ll listen to some tunes.
I’m in college: I want it free, free, free, information should be free, why isn’t this all posted on a FTP server somewhere.
I live in China: let’s see, 20 yuan max to get a tutor for an hour, US$ 20 is about yuan 200, that’s ten hours with a real person, hmm. I buy an ice cream for one yuan that’s ten cents, the bus costs me another 1 yuan, subway splurge with 3 yuan. I negotiate the vegetable down from 2 yuan to 1 yuan 7 mao, the first words out of my mouth upon hearing any price is what? that’s crazy, that’s too expensive, I can go next door, talk to the hand, how about….
So—-I think the podcasting world is new for the mass audience and the business model is to be worked out, you guys will be at the bleeding edge figuring out what will work and how to get ‘paid’. If the tools are out there, I’d start thinking about other offerings, for example, charge $10 to pull down all the podcasts in one click, saving all that time will be of value to many. Have a compilation of the materials, an e-book, that’s worth a good $10. Have an expanded version where the lessons take on various forms, for example, sets that focus on more grammar, or sets that have more emphasis on pronunciation, or sets for slang. I think a one-click compilation is real value-added.
And the one-click, one-buy is a much more viable business model. Look at music, iTunes, 99cents a pop versus years of futile subscription models from Sony, Real Audio, etc. It’s the mantra of the technology, I want things on my terms, the old model was get them to sign up at the healthclub, who cares if they come after three months.
Plus you guys (and gals) ((geez Chinese is way more equalitarian 你们)) can try out ‘products’, put together some compilation, post it in an online store section, have it as a one click on the end of a relevant lesson, it sells, do more, doesn’t sell, try another way. Have user feedback for that product, over time that will really drive business. For example you have a set of your ten best podcasts plus some bennies on how to pronounce the four tones, or a set on how to really bargain, or a 10-pod set of lessons for a business phone call, ohh a premium set of podcasts for someone making a short business trip over here, they can expense it, $50.
Very dense post that has got us thinking here. No conclusions yet, but couple of points:
- In January we will start zipping up the month’s 20 podcasts and seeding them on popular BitTorrent (more commonly referred to as simply ‘BT’ here in China) sites
- It would be nice to experiment with the one-click, one-buy model, but a lot of the supporting infrastructure needs to be built out. Some form of secure RSS, an open source version of Audible’s new audio format, more prevelant BitTorrent support in media players, etc.
20RMB to get a teacher for an hour in China?
We really do appreciate this kind of feedback.
RE: RMB20 for a Chinese teacher
You’re in Shanghai!, It cost more there. Heck you have Starbucks, who in China can afford that! But seriously, I tend to recruit college students as I know what I’d like to learn and in what ‘method’. Most ‘experienced’ Chinese language teachers in a major city or associated with a university cost RMB 60-100 for an hour, but for me I find they tend to speak too much English and talk too much during ‘my lesson’.
Re the one-click technology. I think you guys are a little to in-to the whole RSS, podcast thing, which btw I love and don’t turn it off. But it’s relatively easy to set up a Paypal Button that links to the purchase MP3/pdf file of the bundled content. Set it up, I’ll send you $10 via paypal. That’s RMB 120, which is like 10 meals for me here, so it’s a big deal!
>> you guys will be at the bleeding edge figuring out what will work and how to get ‘paid’.
I really like idea the various one-click packages as opposed to subscription.
- Special sets in depth thematic audio lessons (business meeting/trip as pr David’s suggestion. In depth eating at restaurants. Ang Lee explored. Chinese for Firefly/Serenity Fans. Beware of insults, common embarrassing situations that expats get themselves into - and how to avoid them… endless opportunities, probably, with the option of pricing with the target audience in mind
- Choose 10 transcripts for 5 USD (check the ones you want out of the complete list). This would allow skipping transcripts that are of lessons that are not as challenging or interesting or whatever.
- The Grimm Brothers (and other well-known stories like ‘The Little Prince’ or Disney Classics) read in chinese with no audio translation (but with written material to back it up). One could then listen again and again and start discerning meaning from context.
- Children’s Rhymes (explorations of both the rhymes themselves and cultural background or insights that these provide)
- Cheng2 yu3
I’ve not yet explored the personal learning center (intend to during the holidays), but I imagine that many exciting packages could be put together from what you have.
Oh - and someone mentioned a ‘review splice’ containing all the dialogues from the previous lessons. Maybe one pr month of these could be available for an affordable pr click price.
Another idea that just popped to mind:
What about having the option to pay a sum into an account and then being able to shop for that amount until it is depleted, kind of like ’skype out’? Then one doesn’t have to pay a fee on one’s visa card every time one clicks on an item worth a few cents or a dollar. (Am I making sense?)
I’m new to Chinese and Chinesepod.com. I like structure. I like the flexibility of being able to listen where and when I want. I like to be able to come on-line, any time, and go through as much or as little of the lessons indepth vocab and revision as I want.
I wouldn’t like to pick-choose-and-pay for just this lesson or just that lesson.
But, packages with ready-to-go language lessons, as well as a splice with the Chinese dialogue only and a week’s worth of zips, does sound like great ideas. But for me, as a feature of my subscription and not in lieu of the structured lessons.
Why? Because I like structure.
Yah for subscriptions.
Nice bit of discussion about the cost of tutoring in Shanghai. Interesting theme. I guess the real question here is who is the target market?
Is it non-chinese speakers in China who want to speak chinese, or people outside China who would like to speak chinese?
If you are outside of China ChinesePod.com is a great bargain.
1. Free lessons - Just pop down to your local bookshop and see what you are charged for tapes or cds
2. 1 week trial to see if you like the premium offerings - not a bad deal
3. Two options to get better service a) PDFs or b) the full premium service. Compare what you get from the “average” PC software language training course such as Rosetta Stone with ChinesePod.com and ChinesePod.com wins hands down
Personally I think you have enough options of payments and product bundling.
Keep up with the progress you have made over the part few months on improving your courses and capitalise on the success with Yahoo and keep increasing the awareness of your podcasts and website. I was just lucky I found your podcast in iTunes by accident.
Keep the quality up and get people to know about it and you will make money. On the flipside once you start to make money and the word is out there, if you drop the quality the customers will disappear at a faster rate than it took to get them.
I don’t quite understand why everyone wants to change the price or service terms. They work wery comfortably for me. to give you an idea, I’ve spent approx $150 USD this month on music and DVDs already, and compared to any other media or entertainment offerings (e.g. cable tv = $50/mo, internet = $25/mo, sattelite = $100/mo)in the USA chinespod is a nicely priced, high quality service. (all except for the long intro on every broadcast)
A good service is worth the price
Hi Ben,
Yah I agree with you, I think Cpod’s current pricing and structure is very fair and very high in quality compared to other things out there. This is especially true if one is thinking of the US market and typical habits there. I find it very interesting to hear the comments from various people in places far and near and other circumstances. For CPod to grow don’t you think they need more ‘variety’ in terms of how to get their content? Or will their subscriber-base continue to grow till it’s large enough to be a very good business?
You mentioned you buy DVDs and music, do you listen-pay for satellite radio? Why do you still get the DVDs, for the covers/lyrics and recording-quality? I sound like some marketing person…I’m just curious. Cheers!
David-
No I don’t have satellite radio. What I was talking about is Satellite Internet, which is $99/mo. I guess I should take more time to say exactly what I mean, sorry. Bad IM habit
As for the DVDs….I’m on a very tight budget and only 19(not taking any school though, so I’m not a student. Just in a comparable budget) but even I have a little money for fun(and I consider learning Mandarin fun!)
The DVD’s and music we’re all southern gospel music.
Ben,
I’m just doing the math here:
$150 = 1200yuan
That’s 171 DVD’s (at 7 quai) or 240 cd’s (at 5), or a combination of both.
I see a career in Souther Gospel Music Review for you, young man (and being a Southern boy myself, I’ll spread the word!)
Aric
Hi Ben, Re: Satellite Internet
How does that work? How fast is it? Are you in North America? How big is your satellite dish? Can I see/point my antenna to the satellite from Asia?
All serious questions b/c I am trying to figure out an inexpensive way to get good broadband from a very remote location here in China! My friend has a dish and a satellite feed for get this, Chinese programming and Middle-East programming, the initial setup cost RMB 600 which is about US$80.
Cheers,
D
1. Howfast is it?:
1.0~1.5Mbps downspeed, 1/10 of that upspeed
2. How big is the satellite dish?:
very small. some are round at about 24″ diam. most are oval at a similar size.
Custom, two way satellite. Not caompatible with Asian TV dishes because there only one way
3. How does it work?:
two or three privately owned geostationary satellites float just above panama on the equador and retransmit all data to a local ground station.
you can get service through one of the following:
Direcway
starband
wildblue
while their are many others, they appear to just be resellers and as such, cost more.
FYI I opted for a wireless broadband service through a cell phone provider(verizon) instead because it was cheaper at $80/mo vs. the $99/mo for sat.
I’m not usre what China has, but you might want to check you cellualr carriers for more options.
Hope this helps
-Ben
Aric:
You pay 87cents for a DVD! and only 62cents for a CD! That’s amazing. I have to pay $25 and $15 respectively. Can I put you in charge of all of my purchases? Wait! they don’t even sing So. gospel in chinese! Come to think of it, the only songs I’ve ever heard in while in China were Frank Sinatra, Louis Armstrong and Elvis. No, even 62 cents, it’s not worth it.
But when you do go and spread the word, be sure and tell them to lower their prices. Then I’ll have more money for things like chinesepod
-Ben
Maybe you could have some bonus podcasts or maybe offer more tailored podcasts for those who subscribe? For instance, I’m more interested in the intermediate lessons and would be willing to subscribe if there was a library of bonus intermediate lessons that a subscriber could access or if the subscription was to daily podcasts of intermediate lessons.
In Shanghai, you can get a tutor for as little as 25 kuai. But it will probably be an old lady who doesn’t speak a word of English. I had great teachers for 70-100 kuai: young girls, with university degrees, really good English, and most importantly, knowing how to teach, and understanding foreigners’ needs. So I would say 70-100 yuan is the range one should pay for quality one-to-one tutoring. Prices in expat language centers (150 kuai per hour and not alone?) are ridiculous, don’t pay that…
Anyone complaining about paying $20/month to learn Mandarin at all levels from beginner to advanced, is clearly out of their mind. It’s peanuts and the lessons are absolutely first class. There will always be cheapskates who don’t want to pay anything. Once you know you are charging a fair price - you’ve got nothing to worry about. As for paying piece by piece for each item - that doesn’t work as well as a flat subscription fee for me. I really don’t want to be making financial decisions every day on what to download and what not to download. Just choose your monthly flat fee sub and then forget about it…
(1) I have no idea why people look for Chinese teachers who speak good English. This is bizarre.
(2) In Beijing, numerous Chinese tutors are available for 40 RMB an hour or less. 20 RMB an hour is certainly possible. I paid 40 RMB to a school and the school paid my tutor half that. These Shanghai prices for rich expats are completely out of line with the rest of China.
(3) I spent about 700RMB on textbooks and accompanying CDs in Beijing and accumulated something like 70 CDs and 30 books. That’s hours and hours of professionally produced material. It’s going to be tough to be competitive in the Chinese domestic market.
(4) Investigate the new ePaper devices, combination of mp3 player and document reader. They are already being used to teach Chinese in China (Hanlin Chinese Learner - google it). Unique delivery method not available elsewhere means all comparisons are off…
David X—Hanlin Ebook V8
I want it! Anyone seen it in China, in a store? How much. I will fly to Beijing or Shanghai to get it!!
I’m intrigued to hear about he Hanlin v8. What does it actually do?
I just subscribed for a month premium so far but I will be saving up to get the full year premium subscription. With all the added features in the premium subscription it seems like a great value. I’m planning a vacation tour thru Bejing & Shanghai for a couple of weeks this fall or the following year. I just wanted to be prepared with basic Mandarin skills and then I heard about CPod on NPR- what timing!
I think anything worth doing is worth doing well– you are doing it well and I am willing to support that with my subscription fee. Keep up the excellent work!